Crime Authors Andrew Taylor and Phil Rickman interviewed at Hay's Winter Festival, Dec 2006

At Hay on Wye for the "Winter Festival Weekend", authors Andrew Taylor and Phil Rickman were interviewed by David Freeman, the man who set up the "meettheauthor.com" website.  Taylor's most recent novel is "Naked to the Hangman"; Rickman's "The Remains of an Altar".

This was a great interview - the anticipated elements well exceeded expectations, with the unplanned performing a crafty left hook out of nowhere.  Such is the power of audience participation!

Where else might you get a conversation that encompasses religion; the supernatural; unrequited love; the 1950s; rock musicians; Elgar, both in life and in death; Alfred Watkins, the discoverer of ley-lines; the birth of urban terrorism; Herefordshire RTAs; alternative methods of writing...  And, given the humour on the night, it has to be said that before Welsh MP Lembit Opik introduced "The Cheeky Girls" to a broader audience in Wales, Hay's Drill Hall played host to the cheeky boys on the evening of 2 December 2006.

It's simply one of the best interviews I've attended in a long time, so please enjoy all that I've managed to recount and record here...

The interview opened with Freeman noting that the authors have an element of "weirdness" in their novels.

In the Merrily Watkins series, Rickman's is the supernatural.  He replied that research had identified that more people believe in ghosts than in God, and explained that this could be the case because there might be a scientific explanation for ghosts.

Freeman then asked Taylor, "What's yours?"

"Which one?" was Taylor's initial speedy retort, with a quickly added admission that the Forest of Dean is his main one.

Taylor told us he'd lived in the Forest of Dean longer than anywhere else in his life and had created a fictional variant of it in his Lydmouth series.  Given the number of murders in the series, the fictional variant is a "dangerous place".  The series is also based in the 1950s, a period of time which intrigues Taylor as it is a "forgotten period" when Britain came out of the war having won, but was "slowly losing the peace".  Taylor has read novels and seen films made in the 50s and considers it a "separate time" unlike any other; one with which he was not familiar and one that pre-dated TV and mass media.

Following a bit of probing from Freeman, Taylor indicated that the series actually starts in the late 40s and has now reached 1956.  Taylor has a good idea of the chronology for the series, but does not state the dates in the novels, deliberately...

Freeman thought that Rickman may "have a thing" about Nick Drake.  (Note: Nick Drake was a British rock musician who died at the tender age of 26 from an overdose of anti-depressants.)  Rickman replied that he had "a thing about rock stars really".  He's read Drake's biography and wondered what it would be like if Drake had survived, if he'd been a psychiatric hospital and survived.  Thus Drake's life was the inspiration for a character created by Rickman; but a character who had had the benefit of psychiatric care, survived and came out the other side.

Rickman's series protagonist Merrily Watkins was meant to be a minor character at first.  Avoiding the Rebus real time constraints to crime writing series characters, Rickman described Merrily as "30 something, abut ageing slowly" - "She's a parson and has a daughter and a 'friend' who isn't Nick Drake.  They are an item, but neither is comfortable about this."  Apparently, she's embarrassed going over to his cottage in the afternoon, because she's a vicar.  And, key to the plotting, Merrily is an exorcist.

Freeman asked, "What do they do?"

Rickman: "They rarely exorcise."

This was when Rickman's extensive research came into play.  We were informed that most exorcists have never performed and exorcism; they mainly advise people and deal with poltergeist phenomena.  One exorcist told Rickman that the main part of his "job" is dealing with bereavement apparitions, where some people really do believe they have seen someone who died a year ago, and for about 20% of the cases, he's not sure it is entirely delusional.

Rickman imparted another story from a bishop he credits as someone who is always seeking a rational explanation to everything and believes that 90% of cases are delusional.  One day, he was asked to a house with an apparent haunting from a woman with one leg.  Previously, a woman who had lived in the house had a leg amputated.  When performing the Eucharist in the room, the bishop noted suddenly that six people (as opposed to the original five gathered) were present, one of whom was a woman with one leg.  Always seeking rationality, the bishop's initial thought was "Am I being set up?"

It is because the most rational people have seen a ghost that Rickman believes in them.

Freeman then went on to suggest that Taylor was about to become "obscenely rich" given the forthcoming TV adaptation of his Roth Trilogy.  Rickman cut in with a humorous retort that "There's nothing obscene about being rich".  But Taylor proudly announced that the series stars Charles Dance and Emilia Fox, adding to the humour with a comment that the producers spent so much money on the actors they had little left for the sets.

(Fear not, some of it was shot in the Chilterns.  They don't do Crossroads Motel there.  I can say this with some authority as I used to live there.  Scroll down through Taylor's blog to see some pics of the filming.)

Elaborating on the Roth Trilogy, Taylor explained that this is a story that effectively starts at the end, in the present, with the "murderer in full flower of evil".  The second novel in the trilogy moves back to when she was a teenager and something unsettling happened, with the third taking her back to the age of four.  We get to know what created the murderer we are introduced to in the first novel, by reading on in the trilogy.  Our serial killer is called "Angel" and her father's a vicar.

So now we had a link to Rickman's series theme, but lo and behold, Freeman then announced that his father had been a parson.  A short conversation ensued with Freeman asking Taylor, (whose father had been a member of the clergy), if he had also experienced the comment "You must be a good boy" when growing up.  Taylor replied that he'd experienced it more from others than his father, indicating the expectations of others and the pressures they bring.

Prompted by Freeman, Rickman then elaborated on Elgar, where he considers Elgar's spirit to be still walking in the Malvern Hills, close to the setting for his novels.  Freeman asked Rickman what set him off on this research quest?  Rickman discovered a few connections between Elgar and Alfred Watkins, the discoverer of ley lines: both were born and died within a year of one another; they lived within 200 yards of one another; both liked photography.  Thus Rickman tried to find out if they actually knew one another and he identified two tenuous links: a naturalist club and the fact that they "used to meet to discuss photography" according to a book he found about Elgar's life in Herefordshire.

Rickman elaborated, telling us that Elgar was not the man that many think he was.  Elgar may have written "Land of Hope and Glory", but he didn't actually like the words.  His idea of patriotism did not take the form of a "love of country" and he was actually ambivalent during the war, probably something to do with the fact that his music was first discovered in Germany.  When Elgar knew his life was coming to an end, he expressed the wish to have his ashes scattered and had to be persuaded into a burial.  He also had an interest in paganism.

In Rickman's series, protagonist Merrily Watkins is asked to exorcise the ghost of Elgar.

At this point audience participation suddenly kicked in, leading to an open discussion about some of the strange goings on in Herefordshire.  In particular, the site of a number of road traffic accidents was mentioned, for which no rational explanation has yet been obtained in relation to the causes of the accidents...  Visitors to or passing through Stoke Lacy should beware.  Freeman, for one, looked as though he's not about to visit the area any time soon.  The more we heard from one couple in the audience, the more Freeman's jaw dropped.  It made for a classic moment.

Moving on, Freeman probed Taylor on his latest novel in the Lydmouth series, Naked to the Hangman, noting that is has "a violent start".  "Well it is a crime novel," quipped Taylor.

However, Taylor did admit to a departure in style, where his 1950s set novels have tended towards gentle beginnings so far.  His explanation reflected his view of the actual time: The novel runs with a double narrative; the minor, being the first section, refers to the post-war period when Palestine was run by the British for the UN, holding and guarding the peace, doing what the UN wanted.  But all three warring parties had something of right in the situation that could not be resolved.  The late 1940s in Palestine saw the birth of urban terrorism.

Taylor had asked himself "What if a police officer had been in that environment?  What effect would it have had on him?"  On the basis that people "did extreme things", Taylor decided that his protagonist, Richard Thornhill did something that he later regretted.  In Naked to the Hangman Thornhill's past catches up with him.

Freeman then noted that Naked to the Hangman "is a complex tale... very different from traditional 1930s crime, Inspector Morse...  This is murkier."

Taylor replied that he likes to be murky.  In his Lydmouth series each novel is a self-contained story, but the series as a whole explores the lost decade of the 1950s and its psychological baggage.   Thornhill is a married police officer with an attractive journalist on his doorstep, so there is also a bit of a love story, "a sort of brief encounter that goes on and on..."  Where today, the "sex spark" would be acted upon quickly, Taylor explained that back in the 1950s the police officer would have lost his job.  High standards were expected of him as well as others and Thornhill would not want to give in to temptation.

Freeman then asked Taylor what he does to immerse himself in the period.

For period research, Taylor uses the following as primary sources: newspapers; magazines; novels etc. and the web.  However, he avoids the memories of people who lived through the time.  Setting the novels in the past requires an ear for the language, he explained.

Taylor also likes to make a Lydmouth novel turn on something we now consider bizarre, e.g. the treatment of homosexuals in the 1950s.

Back to Rickman and with Hay so close to the setting for his novels, Freeman asked "Does it help to be here to write this stuff?"

"Yes, it's cheaper for a start," replied Rickman, adding that "not all authors are Jeffrey Archer or overpaid".  But Rickman believes the Welsh Marches are full of unused folklore.  For his earlier novel Crybbe, (a horror genre novel and not part of the Merrily Watkins series), Rickman said he found all he wanted in the Powys town of Presteigne.  Rickman added that he stopped writing horror as he "ran out of convincing stuff".

Freeman asked Taylor about the effect of the book on the reader and what Taylor seeks in this.  He also wanted to know what happens to Taylor's own heart rate when writing.

Due to RSI, (repetitive strain injury), Taylor's method of writing is to dictate into a machine.  His wife then transfers the text to the computer.  He "enjoys doing the voices" when dictating and when the weather is appropriate can be found pacing up and down in his garden "doing the voices".  Taylor said it is hard to dictate "when you are used to seeing" but acknowledged two advantages to his method:

• "You are tapped into the eternal present and can only go forwards."
• Dialogue improves.

Rickman added that "most novels today follow speech more and it's almost impossible to write a book where you don't see a scene through the eyes of a character and the speech of that character".

Taylor believes that dialogue "is a short cut to character - how they speak and look".

Questions were then taken from the lively and appreciative audience, with the following titbits divulged:

• Taylor on detail - Laws in force in the 1950s are not necessarily the same as now or vice versa.  Significant changes have been seen in how the police work and in the area of forensic science, which is more complex these days.  Readers are now experts in such things as the colour of crime scene tape.  Thus it's important to get the detail right.
• Rickman on the clergy - He asked the first exorcist he ever spoke to if a bishop could ever be a murderer and received the reply "I wouldn't put anything past a bishop".  Also: an "arch deacon" is also known as an "arch demon".
• Taylor on the other elements in a crime story - In respect of his Lydmouth police officer and the journalist, Taylor always planned the love story as a theme.  "We're all secretly soppy," he added.

Current novels from Andrew Taylor and Phil Rickman are on sale now in the UK:

• Naked to the Hangman
• The Remains of an Altar.

Comments

[crimeficreader]

Maxine, DP was not mentioned that night, but you are so right in making the connection. Potter saw the dark in and from the FoD and the Welsh Marches. He was so inventive and also controversial in his time, too.
Indeed I remember Cheryl Campbell from those years. I first noticed her in the Vera Brittain TV series - "Testament of Youth". More recently she has been on our TV screens in the series "William and Mary". I only wish she was on TV more.

[Maxine]

Very interesting, Crimficreader. Not that I am a big fan of ghosts and the supernatural, but it all seems so sparky here. And I had no idea about the films.
Incidentally, Dennis Potter wrote a lot about the Forest of Dean -- any connections there? (Cathy is studying Blue Remembered Hills as one of her GCSE plays, but I recall from years ago that Pennies from Heaven, Potter's real breakthrough to the mass audience work, was set there in part, too. Remember Cheryl Campbell in that?)

[crimeficreader]

I have to admit that I have no idea when AT changed methods. I suspect I started reading AT's work when he'd reached the dictation method, as it was a current Lydmouth series novel at the time and I've not read too many from the start of the series. (I bought a couple from the very start but the print quality hurt my eyes too much to stick with them. I think they may have been reprinted now, though.)

But quite a bit of AT's prolific backlist is about to republished, I understand. If I hear any more I'll let you know.

[Clare]

Very interesting excerpts, CFR. I am particularly fascinated by the detail on how the writers work. I was wondering if you'd read any of Taylor's work pre RSI and how it compares in style with post RSI...aprart from the increasingly convincing dialogue.